NBA Discussion Thread

[WeezYIsCraaazY]

Duncan, Parker and Manu have now tied Magic, Kareem and Cooper in wins.

I think they need like 50 more to tie/beat Bird, McHale and Parish. If they all stay together for next season, they'll definitely do it.

[Bill Laimbeer]

Watched that Kansas/Ok St game today... I'm convinced of Wiggins. Due is so RAW straight beast. Dropped 30+, tons of clutch plays, crazy ass alleyoop showing how athletic he is. Hoping the Lakers get a top 3 pick for this guy, he can't go to a bum franchise like the Bucks. Get his ass to the Lakers and play two years with the GOAT Kobe, Kobe will get his mind straight and work his ass off.

This is the alley oop... Stupppiddd. Check the score game almost over.... One point game. Shitttt. Beast I went crazy.

This is the Lakers GM staring Wiggins down today at the game...

The kid is so fun to watch. So much potential.

[BrewCityYM]

Yaw Sum Forgetful Mafuckas Man . . . . Aint Know Way You Taking Westbrook Over Rondo If You've Since What Rondo Has Don't Every Year In The Playoffs LMAOOO

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lol, chris paul has been on a team w elite talent for the past 3 years, and still cant get past the 2nd round, if he cant do it this year, then what? hes been giving the longest pass in the world for the shit he did in new orleans, but as of today, in this nba.

he hasnt done shit in the playoffs, good team or not.

meanwhile,


westbrook has been complimenting durant this entire time, on the path to 3 scoring titles, a gang of all star teams, a gang of all nba team, a finals appereance, an all time margin of victory mark last year, i think it was the 9th best of all time, w the other 8 teams winning championships, and we got robbed of seeing them in the finals cos russ got hurt.


he's also been point guard of a top 5 offense for the past 3 years, which rondo cant say, hes the best shot creator in the league, hes led the league in assist to one player the past few years, w those coming to durant, and hes actually third as well, w those passes going to ibaka. he manages to create efficient offense out of a line up w thabo and perkins in there, ie no space at all.

hes always at the top of league, in assists that lead to free throws, and hockey assist.

meanwhile, rondo finds guys for inefficient mid range jumper, after mid range jumper...


and he can also get you 25 point himself, which rondo cant do...

denying the russ durant tandem, just means your either still watching too much first take..(tho i think even theyre over it) or stuck in 2011..


lol i cant put up russ high light videos, cos there would literally be wayyyy too many games.

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lol, chris paul has been on a team w elite talent for the past 3 years, and still cant get past the 2nd round, if he cant do it this year, then what? hes been giving the longest pass in the world for the shit he did in new orleans, but as of today, in this nba.

he hasnt done shit in the playoffs, good team or not.

meanwhile,


westbrook has been complimenting durant this entire time, on the path to 3 scoring titles, a gang of all star teams, a gang of all nba team, a finals appereance, an all time margin of victory mark last year, i think it was the 9th best of all time, w the other 8 teams winning championships, and we got robbed of seeing them in the finals cos russ got hurt.


he's also been point guard of a top 5 offense for the past 3 years, which rondo cant say, hes the best shot creator in the league, hes led the league in assist to one player the past few years, w those coming to durant, and hes actually third as well, w those passes going to ibaka. he manages to create efficient offense out of a line up w thabo and perkins in there, ie no space at all.

hes always at the top of league, in assists that lead to free throws, and hockey assist.

meanwhile, rondo finds guys for inefficient mid range jumper, after mid range jumper...


and he can also get you 25 point himself, which rondo cant do...

denying the russ durant tandem, just means your either still watching too much first take..(tho i think even theyre over it) or stuck in 2011..


lol i cant put up russ high light videos, cos there would literally be wayyyy too many games.

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lol, chris paul has been on a team w elite talent for the past 3 years, and still cant get past the 2nd round, if he cant do it this year, then what? hes been giving the longest pass in the world for the shit he did in new orleans, but as of today, in this nba.

he hasnt done shit in the playoffs, good team or not.

meanwhile,


westbrook has been complimenting durant this entire time, on the path to 3 scoring titles, a gang of all star teams, a gang of all nba team, a finals appereance, an all time margin of victory mark last year, i think it was the 9th best of all time, w the other 8 teams winning championships, and we got robbed of seeing them in the finals cos russ got hurt.


he's also been point guard of a top 5 offense for the past 3 years, which rondo cant say, hes the best shot creator in the league, hes led the league in assist to one player the past few years, w those coming to durant, and hes actually third as well, w those passes going to ibaka. he manages to create efficient offense out of a line up w thabo and perkins in there, ie no space at all.

hes always at the top of league, in assists that lead to free throws, and hockey assist.

meanwhile, rondo finds guys for inefficient mid range jumper, after mid range jumper...


and he can also get you 25 point himself, which rondo cant do...

denying the russ durant tandem, just means your either still watching too much first take..(tho i think even theyre over it) or stuck in 2011..


lol i cant put up russ high light videos, cos there would literally be wayyyy too many games.

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^^^ idk what happened to my post,

but also,, magic johnson is an idiot when it comes to talking basketball, he also took that shit all the way back,

when russell had 43 points in the finals, he had the biggest game out of lebron durant and wade.

had 43 on 20 made field goals, first player since mj or shaq to do so.. in the finals.

shouldve had 50 or 60 that night, man only went to the line 3 times..

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its funny,, cos rondo vs russ isnt even a legitimate conversation.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...westbru01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rondora01.html



more points scored, more rebounds, more steals, higher per, better shooting percentages, more win shares...

The Games Speak For It's Self & League Pass Baby This Is All I Do . . . . Westbrook In No Way Makes Durant Better . . His Assist Barely even Come From Durant . . . Durant A 2 Shots In A Row, Run Down The Court, Open Wave His Hands Like Im Open Jumping Up & Down But Westbrook Would Go To The Other Side Of The Court As If He Doesn't See Him & Pull Up.. & Durant A Throw Is Hands Back Down Like Dawg WTF . . . . All Those Points They Get Is All Iso's Or Coming Off That Pick From Ibaka Or Perkins . . . Of Course They Gone Get There Because Russell Is A Athletic Freak & Durant Is An Amazing As Scorer . . But Harden Is Gone So That One On One Iso Shit Aint Gone Work In The Playoffs & Especially The Finals . . . So Westbrook Needs To Leave SO He Can Go Somewhere Else & Do What He Wants To Do . . . & The Thunder Need To Bring In A POINT GUARD That Is An Amazing Passer & Defender & Can Ran Triple Doubles Out His Ass In Big Game & That Has Been To The Finals Twice & Played Amazing In Both Especially The 2nd Time . . . It's Crazy How Before He Got Hurt Ppl Was Saying Was Top 3 PG's In The NBA But Now That He Got Hurt He's Forgotten . . . . People So Caught Up In The Moment Its Crazy . . . . .

He Can't Put Up 25 ? But He Put Up 44 In The Playoffs Against The Heat . . . & He''' Have A Game Like 33 12 & 10 Or 21 16 & 12 . . . Come On Bro Be Real . . . . .
& LOL that you brought up hockey assist . . u thirsty bro bro
Rondo Average More Steals, Assist (11 3 str8 years) FG %, & Westbrook Averages 4.7 Rebounds & Rondo 4.5 . . . . .

In The Playoffs Rondos Points Increases from 11.1 to 17.3 While Westbrook Went From 20.0 to 24, His Rebounds Go From 4.5 To 6.7 while westbrook is at 6.5, his assist goes from 9.9 to 11.9 while westbrook is at 7.0 . . . . . Come On Now G

4 Str8 Years Rondo Lead The NBA In Triple Doubles . . . . COME ON NOW G!!!!! just say you a westbrook Stan or something & you just riding with him but you can't say he's a better PG or Better Fit For Durant

[Weezy_KB24]

Depends on the team also.. Westbrook would be better on some while Rondo would be on others.

[BrewCityYM]

Depends on the team also.. Westbrook would be better on some while Rondo would be on others.

Tru Tru . . .

[mode]

Yaw Sum Forgetful Mafuckas Man . . . . Aint Know Way You Taking Westbrook Over Rondo If You've Since What Rondo Has Don't Every Year In The Playoffs LMAOOO

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The Games Speak For It's Self & League Pass Baby This Is All I Do . . . . Westbrook In No Way Makes Durant Better . . His Assist Barely even Come From Durant . . . Durant A 2 Shots In A Row, Run Down The Court, Open Wave His Hands Like Im Open Jumping Up & Down But Westbrook Would Go To The Other Side Of The Court As If He Doesn't See Him & Pull Up.. & Durant A Throw Is Hands Back Down Like Dawg WTF . . . . All Those Points They Get Is All Iso's Or Coming Off That Pick From Ibaka Or Perkins . . . Of Course They Gone Get There Because Russell Is A Athletic Freak & Durant Is An Amazing As Scorer . . But Harden Is Gone So That One On One Iso Shit Aint Gone Work In The Playoffs & Especially The Finals . . . So Westbrook Needs To Leave SO He Can Go Somewhere Else & Do What He Wants To Do . . . & The Thunder Need To Bring In A POINT GUARD That Is An Amazing Passer & Defender & Can Ran Triple Doubles Out His Ass In Big Game & That Has Been To The Finals Twice & Played Amazing In Both Especially The 2nd Time . . . It's Crazy How Before He Got Hurt Ppl Was Saying Was Top 3 PG's In The NBA But Now That He Got Hurt He's Forgotten . . . . People So Caught Up In The Moment Its Crazy . . . . .

He Can't Put Up 25 ? But He Put Up 44 In The Playoffs Against The Heat . . . & He''' Have A Game Like 33 12 & 10 Or 21 16 & 12 . . . Come On Bro Be Real . . . . .
& LOL that you brought up hockey assist . . u thirsty bro bro
Rondo Average More Steals, Assist (11 3 str8 years) FG %, & Westbrook Averages 4.7 Rebounds & Rondo 4.5 . . . . .

In The Playoffs Rondos Points Increases from 11.1 to 17.3 While Westbrook Went From 20.0 to 24, His Rebounds Go From 4.5 To 6.7 while westbrook is at 6.5, his assist goes from 9.9 to 11.9 while westbrook is at 7.0 . . . . . Come On Now G

4 Str8 Years Rondo Lead The NBA In Triple Doubles . . . . COME ON NOW G!!!!! just say you a westbrook Stan or something & you just riding with him but you can't say he's a better PG or Better Fit For Durant

lol in the moment? can you read stats? russell westbrook has been a better basketbal player than rondo for the past 4 years.

rondo has cracked of per of 20 once, russ is averaging 23 for his career.... sooo what are you even saying?


westbrooks just as capable a defender, and wayyyy more versatile, he can guard 1 2 3, and he denies the entry pass, by fronting bigman better than any point guard in the league, and thats not even close, you couldnt do that w rondo at all..


and as for triple doubles, did you pay attention to russell in decemeber at all?

he was pretty much averaging 21 8 and 7.. for the entire month.. before he got hurt, he had a triple double in 3 quarters.. the other night he picked up the second fastest triple double in history... in 20 minutes...



you are living in the past with rondo, russell westbrook had 29 points and 9 asssist in 23 minutes LAST NIGHT. what is rondo doing thats even remotely close to that this year in 2014?



russ is a better shooter, a better scorer, hes betters from deep, hes better from the free throw line, hes more versatile, hes been point guard for a top 5 offense the past 3 years...


rondo literally has no argument, other than " He Can Make Boucne pasSes look real Nce"

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Hell naw bro.

yeah yo, definitely.

lowry was snubbed this year, and hes been putting up numbers since his days in houston.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lowryky01.html


17 7 and 5 > 11 8 and 5... .


21 7 6 >>> is better than both of htem tho. lol i dont even understand how rondo and westbrook is close in anyones mind in 2014. smh

[BrewCityYM]

lol in the moment? can you read stats? russell westbrook has been a better basketbal player than rondo for the past 4 years.

rondo has cracked of per of 20 once, russ is averaging 23 for his career.... sooo what are you even saying?


westbrooks just as capable a defender, and wayyyy more versatile, he can guard 1 2 3, and he denies the entry pass, by fronting bigman better than any point guard in the league, and thats not even close, you couldnt do that w rondo at all..


and as for triple doubles, did you pay attention to russell in decemeber at all?

he was pretty much averaging 21 8 and 7.. for the entire month.. before he got hurt, he had a triple double in 3 quarters.. the other night he picked up the second fastest triple double in history... in 20 minutes...



you are living in the past with rondo, russell westbrook had 29 points and 9 asssist in 23 minutes LAST NIGHT. what is rondo doing thats even remotely close to that this year in 2014?



russ is a better shooter, a better scorer, hes betters from deep, hes better from the free throw line, hes more versatile, hes been point guard for a top 5 offense the past 3 years...


rondo literally has no argument, other than " He Can Make Boucne pasSes look real Nce"

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yeah yo, definitely.

lowry was snubbed this year, and hes been putting up numbers since his days in houston.
Kyle Lowry NBA & ABA Stats | Basketball-Reference.com


17 7 and 5 > 11 8 and 5... .


21 7 6 >>> is better than both of htem tho. lol i dont even understand how rondo and westbrook is close in anyones mind in 2014. smh

This Whole Time You Been Talkin Bout This Current Year ? 2014 ? Because Westbrook Stat Line Is Rondo Aint Even 100%

NBA regular season leader:
2010: most steals (189), most steals per game (2.3)
2012: most assists per game (11.7), most triple-doubles (6)
2013: most assists per game (11.1), most triple-doubles (5)
NBA postseason leader:
2008: most assists (172), most steals (45)
2009: most assists (127), most triple-doubles (3)
2010: most triple-doubles (2), most steals (46)
2011: most triple-doubles (1)
2012: most assists (227), most assists per game (11.9), most triple-doubles (4)
1× NBA Champion: 2008
4× NBA All-Star: 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
1× All-NBA Team:
I Can't Find His Turnover Ratio But It Shits All On Westbrook . . . . . .

Westbrook NBA Achievements:
3× All-NBA Second Team (2011–2013)
3× NBA All-Star (2011–2013)
2009 NBA All-Rookie First Team

AND THATS IT!!!!!!!!!! lmaoooooooo Yes My Nigga You Are Definitely A Prisoner Of The Moment You Forgetful Mutha Fucka smh
You Can Take All Those Turnovers & Bad Shots

[mode]

This Whole Time You Been Talkin Bout This Current Year ? 2014 ? Because Westbrook Stat Line Is Rondo Aint Even 100%

NBA regular season leader:
2010: most steals (189), most steals per game (2.3)
2012: most assists per game (11.7), most triple-doubles (6)
2013: most assists per game (11.1), most triple-doubles (5)
NBA postseason leader:
2008: most assists (172), most steals (45)
2009: most assists (127), most triple-doubles (3)
2010: most triple-doubles (2), most steals (46)
2011: most triple-doubles (1)
2012: most assists (227), most assists per game (11.9), most triple-doubles (4)
1× NBA Champion: 2008
4× NBA All-Star: 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
1× All-NBA Team:
I Can't Find His Turnover Ratio But It Shits All On Westbrook . . . . . .

Westbrook NBA Achievements:
3× All-NBA Second Team (2011–2013)
3× NBA All-Star (2011–2013)
2009 NBA All-Rookie First Team

AND THATS IT!!!!!!!!!! lmaoooooooo Yes My Nigga You Are Definitely A Prisoner Of The Moment You Forgetful Mutha Fucka smh
You Can Take All Those Turnovers & Bad Shots

lol, this is gonna be easy. all you've posted is a bunch of arbitrary ass numbers that dont mean a damn thing, when it comes to creating good offense.

The Celtics: Rajon Rondo is typically one of the team's top shot creators, though he doesn't shoot a whole lot. He averaged 11 assists per game, and took 12 shots himself, of which only 24 percent were assisted by another player. Paul Pierce had a much higher usage rate, but almost 60 percent of his makes were assisted. Rondo is creating more shots for that team. He got injured in January; Boston played a similar number of games with Rondo and without Rondo last season. If Rondo's shot creation were valuable to the Celtics, you'd expect the lack of Rondo to hurt the offense.
Who will score for Boston?

With Rondo injured, Celtics Blog isn't sure
Instead, Boston's offense was much more efficient (+3 points per 100 possessions) after Rondo's injury. The team's assisted field goal percentage -- the share of two-point makes coming from an assist -- dropped from 57 percent to 52 percent, but the shooting conversion rates bumped up. The team had an effective field goal percentage of 49 percent with Rondo and 51.7 percent without him.
One of the arguments is that without the shot creator, others will have to take on a bigger role and become less efficient. Four Celtics saw major boosts in their usage rates with Rondo out. Two of those -- Jason Terry and Jeff Green -- were substantially more efficient in the larger roles. (Terry's usage saw a 10.5 percent increase, and his eFG improved five percent. Green's usage increased nine percent, and his eFG improved 17 percent.) Kevin Garnett's usage increased substantially, but his efficiency fell only slightly. The one player who really suffered in terms of efficiency in the bigger role absent Rondo was Avery Bradley; his usage increased about eight percent; his eFG fell almost 10 percent. (And it was already low in the first place.)
What does this tell us? Terry and Garnett have been high-usage players in their careers, so perhaps moving back to that status wasn't a big change. (Terry, in fact, seemed far more comfortable with the ball in his hands than before Rondo's injuries.) Green is a special case; he found a vial of Larry Legend's secret salve on the cape's shore and took it right when Boston needed him most as Rondo went down. The rest is history.
As for Bradley, he seems to be the type of player you fear asking to create shots. And he's basically the argument for the value of Rondo's shot creation: because the alternative is Avery Bradley creating shots. (Another alternative was Jordan Crawford creating shots -- the Celtics went out and traded for J-Craw after Rondo and Leandro Barbosa went down.)
But on the whole, Boston did not suffer for the lack of Rondo's shot creation, perhaps because able shot creators were available at other positions.
The other example is less vexing.
The Thunder: Oklahoma City, of course, lost premier shot creator Russell Westbrook in the playoffs. Westbrook is perhaps the league's top shot creator -- he was the last time I ran the numbers. He got hurt at the end of OKC's second game against the Rockets in the first round of the playoffs. The Thunder faced the Rockets three times in the regular season with Westbrook, twice in the postseason with Westbrook, and four times without him. Here's what the Thunder's offensive numbers looked like in each set.
Regular season with Westbrook: 3 games, 113.2 offensive rating, .562 eFG
Postseason with Westbrook: 2 games, 112 offensive rating, .545 eFG
Postseason without Westbrook: 4 games, 107.7 offensive rating, .494 eFG
Will Ryan Gomes help OKC?

Welcome to Loud City breaks down the Thunder's newest signing.
That's a precipitous drop with identicalrosters and identical opponents. (The Rockets' Jeremy Lin was gimpy in the postseason, but his replacement, Patrick Beverley, is only marginally better defensively at best.) And here's the thing that makes Westbrook a good case study: he's one of those shot creators who isn't all that efficient himself. Observers constantly wonder how good the Thunder could be offensively if Westbrook would take fewer unassisted shots. But without him creating all those shots, the offense faltered.
On a player basis, the usage was primarily soaked up by Kevin Durant (who handled it beautifully with essentially no drop in efficiency) and Reggie Jackson (who also handled it pretty well). Serge Ibaka's usage rate didn't go up much, but his efficiency totally tanked without Westbrook, suggesting that perhaps the point guard is essential to Ibaka's offensive success. (That merits further study.) Kevin Martin might seem like another candidate for an efficiency drop without Westbrook, but he was awful in the two games Westbrook played in the postseason. And that reminds us that the sample size issue here is glaring us right in the face. That's why this is more a case study than an in-depth exploration.
***
Two examples of major shot creators being removed from their teams, and two different team results and a whole lot of variance among the players most affected. Shot creation is magnificently contextual, and it'll be interesting to see if the analytic community that doesn't work exclusively for NBA teams can come up with some answers.

[BrewCityYM]

lol, this is gonna be easy. all you've posted is a bunch of arbitrary ass numbers that dont mean a damn thing, when it comes to creating good offense.

The Celtics: Rajon Rondo is typically one of the team's top shot creators, though he doesn't shoot a whole lot. He averaged 11 assists per game, and took 12 shots himself, of which only 24 percent were assisted by another player. Paul Pierce had a much higher usage rate, but almost 60 percent of his makes were assisted. Rondo is creating more shots for that team. He got injured in January; Boston played a similar number of games with Rondo and without Rondo last season. If Rondo's shot creation were valuable to the Celtics, you'd expect the lack of Rondo to hurt the offense.
Who will score for Boston?

With Rondo injured, Celtics Blog isn't sure
Instead, Boston's offense was much more efficient (+3 points per 100 possessions) after Rondo's injury. The team's assisted field goal percentage -- the share of two-point makes coming from an assist -- dropped from 57 percent to 52 percent, but the shooting conversion rates bumped up. The team had an effective field goal percentage of 49 percent with Rondo and 51.7 percent without him.
One of the arguments is that without the shot creator, others will have to take on a bigger role and become less efficient. Four Celtics saw major boosts in their usage rates with Rondo out. Two of those -- Jason Terry and Jeff Green -- were substantially more efficient in the larger roles. (Terry's usage saw a 10.5 percent increase, and his eFG improved five percent. Green's usage increased nine percent, and his eFG improved 17 percent.) Kevin Garnett's usage increased substantially, but his efficiency fell only slightly. The one player who really suffered in terms of efficiency in the bigger role absent Rondo was Avery Bradley; his usage increased about eight percent; his eFG fell almost 10 percent. (And it was already low in the first place.)
What does this tell us? Terry and Garnett have been high-usage players in their careers, so perhaps moving back to that status wasn't a big change. (Terry, in fact, seemed far more comfortable with the ball in his hands than before Rondo's injuries.) Green is a special case; he found a vial of Larry Legend's secret salve on the cape's shore and took it right when Boston needed him most as Rondo went down. The rest is history.
As for Bradley, he seems to be the type of player you fear asking to create shots. And he's basically the argument for the value of Rondo's shot creation: because the alternative is Avery Bradley creating shots. (Another alternative was Jordan Crawford creating shots -- the Celtics went out and traded for J-Craw after Rondo and Leandro Barbosa went down.)
But on the whole, Boston did not suffer for the lack of Rondo's shot creation, perhaps because able shot creators were available at other positions.
The other example is less vexing.
The Thunder: Oklahoma City, of course, lost premier shot creator Russell Westbrook in the playoffs. Westbrook is perhaps the league's top shot creator -- he was the last time I ran the numbers. He got hurt at the end of OKC's second game against the Rockets in the first round of the playoffs. The Thunder faced the Rockets three times in the regular season with Westbrook, twice in the postseason with Westbrook, and four times without him. Here's what the Thunder's offensive numbers looked like in each set.
Regular season with Westbrook: 3 games, 113.2 offensive rating, .562 eFG
Postseason with Westbrook: 2 games, 112 offensive rating, .545 eFG
Postseason without Westbrook: 4 games, 107.7 offensive rating, .494 eFG
Will Ryan Gomes help OKC?

Welcome to Loud City breaks down the Thunder's newest signing.
That's a precipitous drop with identicalrosters and identical opponents. (The Rockets' Jeremy Lin was gimpy in the postseason, but his replacement, Patrick Beverley, is only marginally better defensively at best.) And here's the thing that makes Westbrook a good case study: he's one of those shot creators who isn't all that efficient himself. Observers constantly wonder how good the Thunder could be offensively if Westbrook would take fewer unassisted shots. But without him creating all those shots, the offense faltered.
On a player basis, the usage was primarily soaked up by Kevin Durant (who handled it beautifully with essentially no drop in efficiency) and Reggie Jackson (who also handled it pretty well). Serge Ibaka's usage rate didn't go up much, but his efficiency totally tanked without Westbrook, suggesting that perhaps the point guard is essential to Ibaka's offensive success. (That merits further study.) Kevin Martin might seem like another candidate for an efficiency drop without Westbrook, but he was awful in the two games Westbrook played in the postseason. And that reminds us that the sample size issue here is glaring us right in the face. That's why this is more a case study than an in-depth exploration.
***
Two examples of major shot creators being removed from their teams, and two different team results and a whole lot of variance among the players most affected. Shot creation is magnificently contextual, and it'll be interesting to see if the analytic community that doesn't work exclusively for NBA teams can come up with some answers.

I am not reading all of that

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lol, this is gonna be easy. all you've posted is a bunch of arbitrary ass numbers that dont mean a damn thing, when it comes to creating good offense.

The Celtics: Rajon Rondo is typically one of the team's top shot creators, though he doesn't shoot a whole lot. He averaged 11 assists per game, and took 12 shots himself, of which only 24 percent were assisted by another player. Paul Pierce had a much higher usage rate, but almost 60 percent of his makes were assisted. Rondo is creating more shots for that team. He got injured in January; Boston played a similar number of games with Rondo and without Rondo last season. If Rondo's shot creation were valuable to the Celtics, you'd expect the lack of Rondo to hurt the offense.
Who will score for Boston?

With Rondo injured, Celtics Blog isn't sure
Instead, Boston's offense was much more efficient (+3 points per 100 possessions) after Rondo's injury. The team's assisted field goal percentage -- the share of two-point makes coming from an assist -- dropped from 57 percent to 52 percent, but the shooting conversion rates bumped up. The team had an effective field goal percentage of 49 percent with Rondo and 51.7 percent without him.
One of the arguments is that without the shot creator, others will have to take on a bigger role and become less efficient. Four Celtics saw major boosts in their usage rates with Rondo out. Two of those -- Jason Terry and Jeff Green -- were substantially more efficient in the larger roles. (Terry's usage saw a 10.5 percent increase, and his eFG improved five percent. Green's usage increased nine percent, and his eFG improved 17 percent.) Kevin Garnett's usage increased substantially, but his efficiency fell only slightly. The one player who really suffered in terms of efficiency in the bigger role absent Rondo was Avery Bradley; his usage increased about eight percent; his eFG fell almost 10 percent. (And it was already low in the first place.)
What does this tell us? Terry and Garnett have been high-usage players in their careers, so perhaps moving back to that status wasn't a big change. (Terry, in fact, seemed far more comfortable with the ball in his hands than before Rondo's injuries.) Green is a special case; he found a vial of Larry Legend's secret salve on the cape's shore and took it right when Boston needed him most as Rondo went down. The rest is history.
As for Bradley, he seems to be the type of player you fear asking to create shots. And he's basically the argument for the value of Rondo's shot creation: because the alternative is Avery Bradley creating shots. (Another alternative was Jordan Crawford creating shots -- the Celtics went out and traded for J-Craw after Rondo and Leandro Barbosa went down.)
But on the whole, Boston did not suffer for the lack of Rondo's shot creation, perhaps because able shot creators were available at other positions.
The other example is less vexing.
The Thunder: Oklahoma City, of course, lost premier shot creator Russell Westbrook in the playoffs. Westbrook is perhaps the league's top shot creator -- he was the last time I ran the numbers. He got hurt at the end of OKC's second game against the Rockets in the first round of the playoffs. The Thunder faced the Rockets three times in the regular season with Westbrook, twice in the postseason with Westbrook, and four times without him. Here's what the Thunder's offensive numbers looked like in each set.
Regular season with Westbrook: 3 games, 113.2 offensive rating, .562 eFG
Postseason with Westbrook: 2 games, 112 offensive rating, .545 eFG
Postseason without Westbrook: 4 games, 107.7 offensive rating, .494 eFG
Will Ryan Gomes help OKC?

Welcome to Loud City breaks down the Thunder's newest signing.
That's a precipitous drop with identicalrosters and identical opponents. (The Rockets' Jeremy Lin was gimpy in the postseason, but his replacement, Patrick Beverley, is only marginally better defensively at best.) And here's the thing that makes Westbrook a good case study: he's one of those shot creators who isn't all that efficient himself. Observers constantly wonder how good the Thunder could be offensively if Westbrook would take fewer unassisted shots. But without him creating all those shots, the offense faltered.
On a player basis, the usage was primarily soaked up by Kevin Durant (who handled it beautifully with essentially no drop in efficiency) and Reggie Jackson (who also handled it pretty well). Serge Ibaka's usage rate didn't go up much, but his efficiency totally tanked without Westbrook, suggesting that perhaps the point guard is essential to Ibaka's offensive success. (That merits further study.) Kevin Martin might seem like another candidate for an efficiency drop without Westbrook, but he was awful in the two games Westbrook played in the postseason. And that reminds us that the sample size issue here is glaring us right in the face. That's why this is more a case study than an in-depth exploration.
***
Two examples of major shot creators being removed from their teams, and two different team results and a whole lot of variance among the players most affected. Shot creation is magnificently contextual, and it'll be interesting to see if the analytic community that doesn't work exclusively for NBA teams can come up with some answers.

I am not reading all of that if it's that serious then fuck it you won . . . .

[mode]

if rondo is so effective as a point guard, how does his teams offense improve when hes out of the line up?


even when he had the big 3 there, they still spent the year in the middle of the pack offensively.


point guard is about creating a good team offense, and westbrook has been better at creating offense for his team, his entire career, rondo puts up gaudy assist numbers, but they dont do anything for his team.



do you even know what per is??

rondo's career high is 19, and that was in 2009!!

russell has sustained a 23 per in the 4 years since then, the league average is 15.. which is where rondo is right now...


shooting percentages.. russ is better from the field, from deep, and from the free throw line,

when it comes to efficiency his true shooting percentage has been higher his entire career, is effective field goal percentage is higher..


hes actually turning the ball over less than rondo this year, he has OVER HIS CAREER, has more offensive and defensive win shares.


he can more capably, and consistently create offense for himself, night in and night out, while at the same time dishing out assist..

this is from a week ago.. not 2010..

also this year..

yesterday...

since you like triple doubles so much...

this was the fastest triple double in nearly 60 years...



also only player besides scottie pippen to score a triple double in a game 7...

and just for fun, and old times sake...

heres him doing up the celtics..

youve gotta be trapped in a box.. to think rondo is the better player, theres literally nothign that supports it at all...


smh, we havent even gotten to the fancystuff smh,

[BrewCityYM]

if rondo is so effective as a point guard, how does his teams offense improve when hes out of the line up?


even when he had the big 3 there, they still spent the year in the middle of the pack offensively.


point guard is about creating a good team offense, and westbrook has been better at creating offense for his team, his entire career, rondo puts up gaudy assist numbers, but they dont do anything for his team.



do you even know what per is??

rondo's career high is 19, and that was in 2009!!

russell has sustained a 23 per in the 4 years since then, the league average is 15.. which is where rondo is right now...


shooting percentages.. russ is better from the field, from deep, and from the free throw line,

when it comes to efficiency his true shooting percentage has been higher his entire career, is effective field goal percentage is higher..


hes actually turning the ball over less than rondo this year, he has OVER HIS CAREER, has more offensive and defensive win shares.


he can more capably, and consistently create offense for himself, night in and night out, while at the same time dishing out assist..

this is from a week ago.. not 2010..

also this year..

yesterday...

since you like triple doubles so much...

this was the fastest triple double in nearly 60 years...



also only player besides scottie pippen to score a triple double in a game 7...

and just for fun, and old times sake...

heres him doing up the celtics..

youve gotta be trapped in a box.. to think rondo is the better player, theres literally nothign that supports it at all...


smh, we havent even gotten to the fancystuff smh,

Magic Johnson On Rondo: First of all, to me, Rondo is the best all-around,” Johnson said. “There’s nobody even close to him as far as all-around, when you think about scoring, rebounding, assists, he’s No. 1. I think a pure point guard, Chris Paul, and he’s right there with Deron Williams. Rondo, Deron Williams, all those guys are right together. It’s amazing when you think about the crop of point guards we’ve got. But I would say Rondo is the best all-around point guard we have in the league.”

Magic Johnson On Westbrook: That was the worst point guard in the championship finals I've seen," said Magic Johnson during the halftime report

And Just Look What Durant Did When Westbrook Was Out . . . That Proved Right There . . . Nothing Fuck It Im Done Dawg . . . Durant Will Never Win A Ring With Westbrook Ass On The Team & That's That . . . Thank God He Had Harden On The Team To Help Him Get To The Finals That Year . . . . . Durant Shouldn't Be Taking Less Shots Then Anybody On His Team & Waving And Jumping Up & Down For The Damn Ball . . . . . I Swear You Never Watched A Celtics Game Prior To Rondo Getting Hurt . . . You Couldn't Have . . . .But Im Done

[TygaT-raw]

Dallas killed OKC today! i know its just a regular season game but it gave me a little hope that they might have a shot of getting out of round 1.