FWA theory - READ THIS

[no_tom&jerry]

It's not about if FWA came out after Lil Wayne was released from prison, FWA wouldn't even exist I don't think if it wasn't for the Birdman and Cash Money problems

its just a hypothetical scenario. I know FWA wouldn't actually exist. But let's say it did... Or that same set of songs and circumstances was released as C4. I'm saying that I truly believe critics and general public would've embraced it as a continuation of c3. I think wayne is just not a phenomenon like he was before. But that's ok. It weeds out the poseurs from the real fans.

[mode]

[QUOTE=no_tom&jerry;1431292]

critic culture is ridiculous. i been on a tangent about this lately too. i think a lot of things have happened.

etc

QUOTE]


You nailed so many important points there!You’re right:Wayne is a monster genius indeed.Even his lame works (C4, IANAHB2, parts of D4 and D5) have inherent genius to them, they just come off as annoying or “wrong” in some way.Lil Wayne should’ve burned himself out lyrically in 2008, yet he still manages to explain the same few topics over and over again in hilarious and dope ways.

IMO, wayne’s success or failure on a song largely depends on two things: a good comfortable beat for him AND actual interest in music, not skating or whatever.D5 was a hugely disappointing mixtape because he was still suffering from that ridiculous IANAHB2 style, yet if you throw a beat at him like c.r.e.a.m. or you song, he knocks it out of the park!Lately, he has gone back to those mid-tempo more classic hip hop style beats, which I’ve been waiting for, because I knew it would make a huge difference.Plus, he has worked himself into a recording frenzy, which (as we all know from 2006-09) is how wayne works best.He wraps himself up in a complete universe of brilliance and gets better and better.Call it A.D.D. or whatever you want, but when wayne is distracted his music suffers big time.

He has scaled the heights that few artists can reach and as a result everyone has him pigeonholed in about two dozen different pigeonholes!!!Comes back to the “cant please everybody” concept.

On FWA he sounds so excited to be rapping again.It has been like a forest fire spreading since 2013.On IANAHB2 he killed the intro (despite some cheesy lines)… on D5 he turned in a small handful of really solid tracks that sounded like the wayne we all love (cream, you song, fuckin problems) and then something amazing happened:S4TW2.Any true wayne fan should NEVER downplay the importance of that tape.It was the true turning point.That’s when the good finally eclipsed the bad and he actually put out a dope project; something you felt good bumping in front of people. Lol.

For me, the wayne quality test is twofold:first… would you drive around with it playing and not feel embarrassed at all?And second… if someone asked you “so what is lil wayne all about” would you play them that song?In recent years the answer to most songs would be NO.However, with S4TW2 and FWA (especially the latter) I can honestly say these songs can be played with pride, and I would be just as comfortable playing someone “upgrade u” as I would “glory” or “post bail ballin” to demonstrate his lyrical dexterity and cleverness… his over skill.

lol. i can never agree to d5 not being the return of his lyricism. i've been a wayne fan for over 10 years now, nearly completely tuned him out during his i am not a human being run, including dedication 4 and carter 4, because of all the things youve attributed to those periods ( flat delivery, uninspired writing, lack of creativity )

dedication 5 made me a wayne fan again, and im not sure i even think of cream as a top 5 song on there. ill always look at that tape as a return to the game, as a competition. you may not like the the songs for whatever reason, but make no mistake about it. the beats he selected on dedication 5 were statements. wayne didnt rap on kendrick lamar, kanye west, drake, rick ross, rich homie quan, meek millz beats for nothing.

it was a return to the contemporary modern scene. the finesse he showed on that tape, made the way for the action of s4tw2. sometimes mastery isnt about how hard you go, (and he did go hard levels, still got the rock, devastation) but how easy you can make something loook.

i still havent been enchanted by one of his flows the way uoeno had me stuck.


so for me the wayne quality test.. is it live? does it have a kinetic quality? does it snap? does it have pace? how much pressure is he applying to the beat? whats his level of command? how is he turning phrases? how are his ideas traveling? who is he communicating to? what language is he using? how deep is his code? how much fun is he having?

and w that criteria plus some.. his run of d5 + sftw2 + fwa.. i think is easily his best 3 back to back projects since at least 2008.


and im never too worried about whether people know it or not. over these past 10 years or so, what ive noticed.. is the more people like wayne on a commercial level, the less likely it is that his music is any good.


the better it is, the less its understood by the masses. his language, his experience, his speed is too much of a barrier for the person who doesnt want to spend time and invest in listening to waynes music.

and as a listener, im fine with that.


as a fan. lol im yelling from the rooftops, this guy is a fucking genius. and you ppl dont fucking know it. wake up.

[no_tom&jerry]

[QUOTE=mode;1431404]

lol. i can never agree to d5 not being the return of his lyricism. i've been a wayne fan for over 10 years now, nearly completely tuned him out during his i am not a human being run, including dedication 4 and carter 4, because of all the things youve attributed to those periods ( flat delivery, uninspired writing, lack of creativity )

dedication 5 made me a wayne fan again, and im not sure i even think of cream as a top 5 song on there. ill always look at that tape as a return to the game, as a competition. you may not like the the songs for whatever reason, but make no mistake about it. the beats he selected on dedication 5 were statements. wayne didnt rap on kendrick lamar, kanye west, drake, rick ross, rich homie quan, meek millz beats for nothing.

it was a return to the contemporary modern scene. the finesse he showed on that tape, made the way for the action of s4tw2. sometimes mastery isnt about how hard you go, (and he did go hard levels, still got the rock, devastation) but how easy you can make something loook.

i still havent been enchanted by one of his flows the way uoeno had me stuck.


so for me the wayne quality test.. is it live? does it have a kinetic quality? does it snap? does it have pace? how much pressure is he applying to the beat? whats his level of command? how is he turning phrases? how are his ideas traveling? who is he communicating to? what language is he using? how deep is his code? how much fun is he having?

and w that criteria plus some.. his run of d5 + sftw2 + fwa.. i think is easily his best 3 back to back projects since at least 2008.


and im never too worried about whether people know it or not. over these past 10 years or so, what ive noticed.. is the more people like wayne on a commercial level, the less likely it is that his music is any good.


the better it is, the less its understood by the masses. his language, his experience, his speed is too much of a barrier for the person who doesnt want to spend time and invest in listening to waynes music.

and as a listener, im fine with that.


as a fan. lol im yelling from the rooftops, this guy is a fucking genius. and you ppl dont fucking know it. wake up.

You make some very good points here. Beat selection notwithstanding, a lot of D5 just wasn't for me. But that's not to say I don't appreciate the work he put in - or the fact that it could be for someone else, just not me. I feel like wayne sealed his own fate by putting out C4, because that was the moment when the world was listening. The hip hop game and music industry overall is fickle. Compare that moment when weezy just got out of prison to the moment when u are vibing with a girl and you've got her ear and she's laughjng and the music is right (no pun) - she's ready willing and able to kiss u right then and there..... He had just put out 6'7' which was well received and the world was open to his next move, hanging on every word. He puts out S4TW2. Okay okay, not the end of the world. Little weak but it's just an appetizer!!! Then at that crucial moment when the girl is ready to be kissed......... you fumble it. You miss the moment and keep talking or go get a drink or ask your boy what time it is. Lol. That was C4. Wayne should've been between the world's legs like a piranha (go FWA!) but he passed on it. It was seriously like the musical equivalent of him saying "alright peace. I'm going home"

and like dealing with that moment with a woman, it's unlikely that you'll get that moment back. However u WILL get your groove back at some point with another girl in another time.... That time for wayne is now.

I dont think I could torture that metaphor any further so I'll leave it alone. Lol. I'm sure u get my point.

[Theonlydjorkaeff]

[QUOTE=no_tom&jerry;1431488]

You make some very good points here. Beat selection notwithstanding, a lot of D5 just wasn't for me. But that's not to say I don't appreciate the work he put in - or the fact that it could be for someone else, just not me. I feel like wayne sealed his own fate by putting out C4, because that was the moment when the world was listening. The hip hop game and music industry overall is fickle. Compare that moment when weezy just got out of prison to the moment when u are vibing with a girl and you've got her ear and she's laughjng and the music is right (no pun) - she's ready willing and able to kiss u right then and there..... He had just put out 6'7' which was well received and the world was open to his next move, hanging on every word. He puts out S4TW2. Okay okay, not the end of the world. Little weak but it's just an appetizer!!! Then at that crucial moment when the girl is ready to be kissed......... you fumble it. You miss the moment and keep talking or go get a drink or ask your boy what time it is. Lol. That was C4. Wayne should've been between the world's legs like a piranha (go FWA!) but he passed on it. It was seriously like the musical equivalent of him saying "alright peace. I'm going home"

and like dealing with that moment with a woman, it's unlikely that you'll get that moment back. However u WILL get your groove back at some point with another girl in another time.... That time for wayne is now.

I dont think I could torture that metaphor any further so I'll leave it alone. Lol. I'm sure u get my point.

Damn.. I didnt realise people didnt like C4. It was dope to me, and I think the world still thought Wayne was GOAT back then. How To Love slayed the charts, 6 foot 7 was incredible, Megaman, the bonus tracks, Mirror, John.. Even How to Hate was ok.

D5 was insane to me. I loved every song on that, but not as much as D4. Dunno why but I adored that record. I still love IANAHB2.

Look, if Wayne makes listenable music, his personality will win it for me. He has had his run, and it was 8 years ago now. I dont expect him to have another run, or be critically successful again, or even commercially successful. He's ancient in industry terms, but if he keeps dropping things like FWA I will forever fuck with him.

[no_tom&jerry]

[QUOTE=Theonlydjorkaeff;1431491]

Damn.. I didnt realise people didnt like C4. It was dope to me, and I think the world still thought Wayne was GOAT back then. How To Love slayed the charts, 6 foot 7 was incredible, Megaman, the bonus tracks, Mirror, John.. Even How to Hate was ok.

D5 was insane to me. I loved every song on that, but not as much as D4. Dunno why but I adored that record. I still love IANAHB2.

Look, if Wayne makes listenable music, his personality will win it for me. He has had his run, and it was 8 years ago now. I dont expect him to have another run, or be critically successful again, or even commercially successful. He's ancient in industry terms, but if he keeps dropping things like FWA I will forever fuck with him.

I hear you bro. C4 definitely had some high points.The first five tracks were fire to me back then, but later I began to hate intro, blunt blowin… so it became a 3,4,5 run.I still fuck with megaman, 6’7 and nightmares.I just think a lot of that album was bullshit.He didn’t seem to care too much about rapping, which really made 6’7 stick out like a sore thumb on that album!He sounds like he needs a shot of coke in his ass on C4 – cocaine or coca cola, either one would’ve been helpful lol.Because he was FLAT as fuck.Sounded so bored.That’s also when the corny lyrics began.So Special is unlistenable to me.So many of the “punchlines” on C4 are nonsense or close to it.It always struck me as the sound of someone who had sobered up the next morning. LOL.His peak period was one long crazy night where he was fucked up out of his mind, being the genius he is.Then he woke up tired and kind of hung over

Best:
Megaman
6’7
Nightmares
How to Love

Bad to Average:
Abortion
She Will
John
Blunt blowin
How to Hate
Prez Carter

Worst:
It’s Good (I know people like this one, but come on… Jay Z diss aside, the lyrics are fucking embarrassing)
Intro
So Special

I didn’t bother ranking interlude or outtro.

[Mbminas]

if u call bad president carter, john and she will what can i say

[mode]

what i had to come to terms with, was that every once in awhile.. wayne has to make formulaic songs, because so often hes freewheeling on mixtapes, and thats what i here for. even on c1 and c2. songs like bmjr and oh no. hes just sprawling on beats.

i dont think organisation is his strongest skill, and on c4. he seemd to me to be forcing organisation very hard, and he wasnt rhyming up to par, or rapping up to par.

fwa is a completely different story tho. hes organised and snapping, even if the formats are a little dated.. the songs are still good.

- - - Updated - - -

[QUOTE=no_tom&jerry;1431488]

You make some very good points here. Beat selection notwithstanding, a lot of D5 just wasn't for me. But that's not to say I don't appreciate the work he put in - or the fact that it could be for someone else, just not me. I feel like wayne sealed his own fate by putting out C4, because that was the moment when the world was listening. The hip hop game and music industry overall is fickle. Compare that moment when weezy just got out of prison to the moment when u are vibing with a girl and you've got her ear and she's laughjng and the music is right (no pun) - she's ready willing and able to kiss u right then and there..... He had just put out 6'7' which was well received and the world was open to his next move, hanging on every word. He puts out S4TW2. Okay okay, not the end of the world. Little weak but it's just an appetizer!!! Then at that crucial moment when the girl is ready to be kissed......... you fumble it. You miss the moment and keep talking or go get a drink or ask your boy what time it is. Lol. That was C4. Wayne should've been between the world's legs like a piranha (go FWA!) but he passed on it. It was seriously like the musical equivalent of him saying "alright peace. I'm going home"

and like dealing with that moment with a woman, it's unlikely that you'll get that moment back. However u WILL get your groove back at some point with another girl in another time.... That time for wayne is now.

I dont think I could torture that metaphor any further so I'll leave it alone. Lol. I'm sure u get my point.

it makes sense, and i think the big flaw with c4.. is that he knew the world was listening. he was fresh out of prison and people expected depth.. so we get a hundred forced "life is like..." lines that really arent all that deep.

but thats where wayne struggles the most.. when he dumbs down his english to speak to more people, his music gets pretty bland. it loses the quality that makes wayne music great.

the irony is that everyone listens when he slows down, and c4 sold a milliion copies.. nowadays when his language is more honest... people cant catch up.. and tune him out.

[joshdiglio]

if u call bad president carter, john and she will what can i say

[KingEz514]

Still waiting on him to top his Levels freestyle, D5 is still hard

[no_tom&jerry]

Still waiting on him to top his Levels freestyle, D5 is still hard

oh yeah, I always forget about levels because it was short and split with someone else. That was amazing. I actually made my own version of D5 with just the best tracks (imo) and levels (weezy only) was my intro.

- - - Updated - - -

[QUOTE=mode;1431535]what i had to come to terms with, was that every once in awhile.. wayne has to make formulaic songs, because so often hes freewheeling on mixtapes, and thats what i here for. even on c1 and c2. songs like bmjr and oh no. hes just sprawling on beats.

i dont think organisation is his strongest skill, and on c4. he seemd to me to be forcing organisation very hard, and he wasnt rhyming up to par, or rapping up to par.

fwa is a completely different story tho. hes organised and snapping, even if the formats are a little dated.. the songs are still good.

- - - Updated - - -

it makes sense, and i think the big flaw with c4.. is that he knew the world was listening. he was fresh out of prison and people expected depth.. so we get a hundred forced "life is like..." lines that really arent all that deep.

but thats where wayne struggles the most.. when he dumbs down his english to speak to more people, his music gets pretty bland. it loses the quality that makes wayne music great.

the irony is that everyone listens when he slows down, and c4 sold a milliion copies.. nowadays when his language is more honest... people cant catch up.. and tune him out.

yeah that's a very good point. Something else that might've had to do with it: I remembers hearing that wayne was writing out a lot of his lyrics at that time, as in ON PAPER. I think he kept a book in prison or something like that. And wayne almost DOES sound like he's reading - or at least reciting - on those C4 songs. Even 6'7 which was fire sounded like it was pre-written. I think he was way outside of his comfort zone in that sense. I know there's that footage of him recording she will, but if I was putting money on it I would bet that he memorized those lyrics from a page. They were all strange, vacuous philosophizing and bad puns. Sounds like they were labored over (sober) rather than spontaneously created between takes.

[WeEeEeEzZzZyYy]

if u call bad president carter, john and she will what can i say

and you didn't even name the best songs lol

[ASP]

The only thing wrong with current wayne is how fucking high pitch his voice gets. Like if he used less auto tune sometimes and would lower his own vocal pitch he would be good.

Otherwise i dont have a problem with him lyrically right now.